Alan A
An innocent little comment about a nearly forgotten president has reignited an old poll. I'm tickled pink as they used to say. Who knew anyone would be paying attention?
Doug Walters
Sorry, Van Buren was a democrat. http://millercenter.org/president/vanburen
February 8
Alan A"Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity, and hardihood—the virtues that made America. The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the lo... more"Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity, and hardihood—the virtues that made America. The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life." T. R. Roosevelt Hardly the words of a socialist.
February 8
Alan A
http://millercenter.org/president/vanburen/essays/biography/6
February 8
Doug Walters
Alan, that is dirty pool, using the web site I referred you to to refute my well thought out and focused arguments. I am not talking to you any more unless you post something else, of course.
Vincent Ross""Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity, and hardihood—the virtues that made America. The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, ... more""Americanism means the virtues of courage, honor, justice, truth, sincerity, and hardihood—the virtues that made America. The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living and the get-rich-quick theory of life." T. R. Roosevelt Hardly the words of a socialist. "
I dunno, part of that certainly sounds like something I would hear outta the mouths of leftists... they tend to think that those who are successful fall into that "prosperity at any price" category.. and that those who are succesful did so thru some get-rich-quick scheme or other manner in which they do not deserve their fruits of the labors.
Was Teddy a full blown socialist? Nah, probably not.. He was a nice guy with good intent (the road to hell is paved with what?)who had some views that played into socialist hands and promoted, albeit unknowingly, their agenda. What some refer to as useful idiots. After all, the whole idea of "From each according to ability, to each according to need" is a pretty high-minded, flowery, attractive ideal too... and we all know where that leads to. less
February 9
Vincent RossSome would say that people keeping what they earned, especially rich ones, while there are poor people in the country falls into that "prosperity at any price" category. How selfish are those rich bastards anyway, wanting to keep what they earn... moreSome would say that people keeping what they earned, especially rich ones, while there are poor people in the country falls into that "prosperity at any price" category. How selfish are those rich bastards anyway, wanting to keep what they earned when society could find better ways to spend their money?
Most of what he said i find little fault with. But the devil is very good at saying a lot of high-minded truths, just to get you to swallow the one little lie he dropped into the mix.
February 9
Vincent RossIn fact, as I look over that quote a lil more carefully, there is nothing objectionable about anything he says about the virtues, etc. But every single aspect of his statement that is related to economics at all, which is what socialism is about... it is... moreIn fact, as I look over that quote a lil more carefully, there is nothing objectionable about anything he says about the virtues, etc. But every single aspect of his statement that is related to economics at all, which is what socialism is about... it is an economic system... DOES sound like something a socialist would say. "The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price...the get-rich-quick". Both of which also sound rather disingenuous from someone who was born into wealth (how does one get rick quicker and easier than that?). less
February 9
Vincent RossOf course, those who come from old money DO tend to look down their noses at those who get rich quickly. Get rich quick types tend to be more "vulgar" than the old money who know how to behave at cotillions. The new moneyed people simply do no... moreOf course, those who come from old money DO tend to look down their noses at those who get rich quickly. Get rich quick types tend to be more "vulgar" than the old money who know how to behave at cotillions. The new moneyed people simply do not know how to behave and have no business rising above their station, mingling with people of better "quality and breeding". (How is THAT for good ole American values?)
February 9
Alan AGood God Vincent - where does one even start. Rather obviously you know little about T. Roosevelt. You seem to be confusing him with F. D. Roosevelt. J. P. Morgan or practically any Rockefeller would have said much the same thing as the quote you struggle... moreGood God Vincent - where does one even start. Rather obviously you know little about T. Roosevelt. You seem to be confusing him with F. D. Roosevelt. J. P. Morgan or practically any Rockefeller would have said much the same thing as the quote you struggle to find so ingenuous. Are you going to call them socialists too? Such a full-blown twisting of words and meanings suggests a deliberate effort to arrive at a pre-conceived conclusion through any means possible, no matter how airy, flighty, and bizarre the path. Some people might say as you depict, but do you have the slightest evidence that T. Roosevelt was one of them? And what is it that makes him a devil, and what is the one little lie he dropped into the mix? less
February 11
Alan A10:19 - Teddy Roosevelt's parents were well-off, but they were not wealthy. He was not born into wealth, he was born into an upper-middle class family. Again, you seem to be confused about which Roosevelt was which. Plus, he was probably a harder working ... more10:19 - Teddy Roosevelt's parents were well-off, but they were not wealthy. He was not born into wealth, he was born into an upper-middle class family. Again, you seem to be confused about which Roosevelt was which. Plus, he was probably a harder working man than just about anyone you or any other socialist has ever known. I'm weary with trying to untwist your overreaching efforts. Do you ever believe anyone says what they say? Is everything in your mind deception, indirection, and perverse use of language? I suggest that you actually try to learn something about the person before you embark on such an extensive and ill-informed project to tear them down. less
February 11
Vincent Ross
Read the quote, those are his words, not FDR's,, and my description was accurate. Compared to the vast majority of the country at the time, he was born into wealth.
February 11
Vincent RossHis father, Theodore, Sr., was a well-to-do businessman and philanthropist. His mother, Martha "Mittie" Roosevelt, was a Southerner, raised on a plantation in Georgia. As a young boy, Roosevelt was tutored at home by private teachers. He travele... moreHis father, Theodore, Sr., was a well-to-do businessman and philanthropist. His mother, Martha "Mittie" Roosevelt, was a Southerner, raised on a plantation in Georgia. As a young boy, Roosevelt was tutored at home by private teachers. He traveled widely through Europe and the Middle East with his family during the late 1860s and early 1870s, once living with a host family in Germany for five months. In 1876, he entered Harvard College, where he studied a variety of subjects, including German, natural history, zoology, forensics, and composition.
yeah, the typical life of the working class man. less
February 11
Vincent Ross
BTW, I dunno enuf about JP Morgan to comment on him.. but FDR and JD Rockefeller.. YEAH they WERE socialists, or at the least, fellow travelers.
February 11
Alan AI posted the quote. You think I posted it without reading it? Get a clue. I said his family was well-off, you say well-to-do. Big difference, eh? The rest of your middle post sounds like you just copied it off a website somewhere. I'm so sorry Vincent, bu... moreI posted the quote. You think I posted it without reading it? Get a clue. I said his family was well-off, you say well-to-do. Big difference, eh? The rest of your middle post sounds like you just copied it off a website somewhere. I'm so sorry Vincent, but your world goes from interesting to tiresome in about two sentences. I've got dishes to wash and toenails to pare and about a thousand other more interesting tasks to handle than trying to live in your bizarre world. Maybe some other time.
February 12
Vincent RossAmong the platform of the Bull Moose Progressive Party, founded by T Roosevelt were...
A National Health Service to include all existing government medical agencies.
(can you say Obamacare?)
Social insurance, to provide for the elderly, the unemployed, and the disabled ... moreAmong the platform of the Bull Moose Progressive Party, founded by T Roosevelt were...
A National Health Service to include all existing government medical agencies.
(can you say Obamacare?)
Social insurance, to provide for the elderly, the unemployed, and the disabled
(nope.. nuthin socialist about social insurance, lol)
Limited injunctions in strikes
(ie pro-union)
A minimum wage law for women
An eight hour workday
(socialistic interference in free negotiation of hours and wages between employers and workers)
Farm relief
(the beginings of socialist farm subsidies)
An inheritance tax
A Constitutional amendment to allow a Federal income tax
The political reforms proposed included
Direct election of Senators
(one of the worst mistakes we ever made, turning Senators into as much of money-grubbing sell-outs to special interests as the Representatives are))
Primary elections for state and federal nominations
(allowing the powers behind the thrones to control who our choices in the elections are gonna be limited to)
Nah, I cannot imagine how ANYONE could interpret him as a socialist. Some of these are not socialist, they are full blown Marxist. less
Vincent Ross
Yes... when they are puncturing one's bubble, little annoying things like facts can seem rather tedious.
February 12
Vincent Ross
And then there is his views on eugenics which he summed up as follows...
"Society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce." - T Roosevelt.
February 12
Vincent RossBTW, I dunno what website you are used to, but you will find that playing that "Nyah, Nyah, you are dumb" game, thinking that a condescending attitude will win out over facts, will get you no-where on this site. We have all seen it before and n... moreBTW, I dunno what website you are used to, but you will find that playing that "Nyah, Nyah, you are dumb" game, thinking that a condescending attitude will win out over facts, will get you no-where on this site. We have all seen it before and nobody here is impressed by it.
A National Health Service to include all existing government medical agencies.
(can you say Obamacare?)
Social insurance, to provide for the elderly, the unemployed, and the disabled ... more
"Society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce." - T Roosevelt.